Meeting Minutes – July 29, 2020
The Churubusco Town Council met on July 29, 2020 at 6:00 p.m. in the Scout Building for a special meeting. Members present were Council Members Mark Pepple (via Zoom), Bruce Johnson, and Nathan Van Horn; and Clerk-Treasurer, Madalyn Sade-Bartl. Also in attendance were Holly Miller & Casey Erwin, DLZ; Town Attorney, Ron Felger; Town Supevisor, Jeremy Hart; and Wastewater Superintendent, Bob Gray.
Council President, Nathan Van Horn, called the meeting to order and led the pledge. Roll was called by the Clerk. All members were present. Mr. Pepple did have to leave about an hour into the meeting.
Below is a transcript of the Council meeting as prepared by transcribers from Rev.com and reviewed by Madalyn Sade-Bartl. Parts of the meeting were inaudible as referenced in the transcription.
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Nathan Van Horn:
All right, let’s all stand for the pledge of allegiance.
Group:
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.
Nathan Van Horn:
Roll call.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Nate Van Horn.
Nathan Van Horn:
Present.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Bruce Johnson?
Bruce Johnson:
Present.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Mark Pepple?
Mark Pepple:
I’m present.
Nathan Van Horn:
All right, we’ll start the special meeting for the preliminary evaluation report from DLZ to discuss a future expansion of sewage services.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
So I sent you guys a very high level estimation of what this is going to do rates per million dollars. Currently we’re not up to what we should be at anyway, and just very high level thinking we need to increase by three to four dollars a month just to get where we should be, which is something that we kind of knew and then was not passed for a higher rate increase. [inaudible 00:09:33] says if we did roll our 2007 bond into a current run, ballpark of $5 per month per one million dollars of project. So, if we do $5 million, then we’re looking at a $25-$30 minimum increase.
Nathan Van Horn:
For each resident?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
For each resident. Well, I mean that’s for the minimum. I mean you’re talking it’ll be even higher for those that use more.
Nathan Van Horn:
And I mean I was wondering I mean obviously you’ll [inaudible 00:10:13] know for sure that was taken into consideration from the beginning and from the potential customers right?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah, I mean that’s just to pay back our bond.
Nathan Van Horn:
Right.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah.
Nathan Van Horn:
So I guess what I’m saying then say we got 150 from the one down south and then the residents. What would that be, about [inaudible 00:10:36] or whatever.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
A full rate study would have to be done to get …
Nathan Van Horn:
I’m saying a pension might be a little bit less than that, since we’d be taking on more people.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Possibly, but I mean they would also be getting a bulk rate, not a … So yeah, our current minimum is $33.90 that does go up to $34.24 on January first, but you’re talking an additional, I mean we’ll just err on the side of caution, $30 bucks a month. For a minimum customer that’s $64.24 just for sewer, that does not include water, or storm, or trash.
Nathan Van Horn:
I can’t imagine that going over too well, basically [inaudible 00:11:32]. Especially your average person isn’t going to see this, I mean it isn’t going to benefit them. At the end of the day when citizens come here and I don’t know. What I can say to them that would be a good way to persuade them that this isn’t going to help the average Joe out. I mean they’re not going to see any difference in function of their sewer and stuff like that.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
This does not take into consideration any incentives that the RSD might throw at us. I mean I know that they’ve mentioned throwing some money at us, but I don’t know how much. And we really don’t … but you’re still going to talk about a really significant increase no matter what. I doubt that they’re going to be throwing millions upon millions of dollars at us.
Ron Felger:
I know I’m not a member of the board and council but just out of curiosity, what is the interest rate the current bonds are-
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
3.7%.
Ron Felger:
[inaudible 00:13:02] I mean interest rates are incredibly low [inaudible 00:13:05].
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah, the current bond right now is at 3.7%.
Casey Erwin:
There is talk that could drop even lower.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Well that’s what our current bond is, we can’t refinance unless we roll it into another bond.
Ron Felger:
I guess [inaudible 00:13:21].
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
You got to talk louder, Ron.
Ron Felger:
Okay. You know I assume it’s probably refinance the whole thing at once [inaudible 00:13:29].
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Right, which is kind of what we were hoping to do.
Ron Felger:
Try going all in [inaudible 00:13:39]. Makes sense. Take care of it in one shot.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah.
Ron Felger:
You know I don’t know if this is an appropriate time to talk about that. There have been some ongoing discussions since Nate kind of realized last Friday that [inaudible 00:13:58] district [inaudible 00:14:00] disagreement a lot more detail. And there is a section underneath that talks about the capacity and [inaudible 00:14:07] customers. And then it goes on to say that [inaudible 00:14:10] further understood and agreed that any additional capital costs [inaudible 00:14:16] grant funds for the increased capacity [inaudible 00:14:20] negotiations. [inaudible 00:14:22].
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Well I mean they’re not using their capacity as it is.
Nathan Van Horn:
That’s not saying that if they wanted to add on top of what their capacity is, then-
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah, but right now, I mean they’re nowhere near their capacity as it is.
Jeremy Hart:
Based on secured [inaudible 00:14:47] capacity I don’t know. So, it doesn’t really matter at this point. So, it’s not like we’re saying no to them, it’s just that right now we’ve got some issue with some [inaudible 00:14:59]. We’ve already guaranteed them that they’re going to get what they need. There’s no way to [inaudible 00:15:06]. But right now we’re still working on that infiltration issue, and honestly I don’t think [inaudible 00:15:14] look at that. So, we’re not saying no it’s just [inaudible 00:15:18] time. But if they go to add on because that’s only a six [inaudible 00:15:22] that’s coming up [inaudible 00:15:25]. It would be their part to incur if they decide there was more, if we can even take more on over and above what we’ve already guaranteed them.
Robert Gray:
The pump is only running 90 minutes a day, so there’s a lot of capacity.
Ron Felger:
Really?
Robert Gray:
Dry weather, 40,000 a day. And that’s not a real quick money maker correct? Unfortunately, that’s what’s going to happen, they’re only getting paid-
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
For what they’re using.
Robert Gray:
For what they’re using. You’re not getting [inaudible 00:16:00] did all this. You get it all.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah, you get capital improvement costs and [crosstalk 00:16:07]-
Jeremy Hart:
So we’re basically treating it as paid sewage to get treated.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
That’s it. [crosstalk 00:16:13].
Nathan Van Horn:
Yeah, that makes sense. It’s not like we’re giving them a bill of $33 or whatever minimum is.
Robert Gray:
Whereas the town people are actually paying for [inaudible 00:16:22].
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Which they have been for years.
Nathan Van Horn:
That’s what I was thinking, that’s what I mean as far as taking on more of [inaudible 00:16:28] where they’re not even really going to pay that much [inaudible 00:16:32]. It’s a hard pitch, you know? And so, I guess we already kind of know it but again what got us to the point of even wanting to do this? What are the goals of it? Is it to take on the potential regional sewer district? Is it to make sure we can fulfill our agreement with Blue Lake? What are our goals to try and then see what we can take from this, collect from this? Does that make sense?
Jeremy Hart:
I think with Blue Lake, we’ve already guaranteed capacity. So, they’re kind of priority if they want to make on. We need to make a capacity for them, but regional sewer district is more they’re asking, “We would like to do this,” but we’re the ones that have to say yes or no.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
But I mean I think a lot of this spawns from Franklin Electric asking to tap on. And Madalyn Sade-Bartl did a preliminary price just for that to increase our line, which was really minuscule in the grand scheme of things.
Nathan Van Horn:
$2 million total to put in that line roughly?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, or $1.5
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah, something like that. [crosstalk 00:17:43].
Nathan Van Horn:
I know the talk’s been just as far as growth, trying to get some developments like the outside thing to do, we’d probably need to do something for that especially if we can’t even take on Blue Lake right now [inaudible 00:18:06] something, right? [inaudible 00:18:06] or something just to [inaudible 00:18:13]. I mean is there any way to … like do we know roughly what we need to be able to … what numbers we need to get to to be able to do some of this? Or do we just need [inaudible 00:18:29]. I mean I don’t know how it works.
Jeremy Hart:
As in what? As in the infiltration? Or capacity?
Robert Gray:
Right now we’re at 47% and that plant is screaming [crosstalk 00:18:41].
Jeremy Hart:
So we’re at 50% in normal conditions.
Robert Gray:
So you could get rid of just a little bit of I & I, it would help.
Nathan Van Horn:
I guess that’s all I’m asking, I know it’s impossible to know for sure, but does that mean if we fix one spot we might be pass… I guess what I’m trying to figure out is can we kind of try and hone in on more specifically what we need to do rather than hey let’s just do all these things, and for sure that’s going to fix it.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Honestly I think a big problem of ours right now is a county problem that they’re not willing to address, wouldn’t you say?
Bruce Johnson:
That’s Line Street right?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Clingerman.
Robert Gray:
Any of the outside drains. I think that would be the first thing that-
Jeremy Hart:
You’re talking about the Rapp Ditch?
Robert Gray:
Rapp Ditch, Johnson’s
Jeremy Hart:
So we can push and ask Brandon if he can redo part of Windsor. That would help alleviate a lot, because I already know it’s nearly half to three quarters full. So what it’s doing is it’s backing up. So once you pass Line Street you get to where Frank Kessler lives, and that area. And Conway and them are marked, and then that I know is [inaudible 00:20:02]. So if you can open that up, it would allow that water to move faster out and move back up into our lines. And right now we’re the ones that are getting the bulk because when they redid the new part out there along where the retirement home and stuff is, that’s when we saw it.
Nathan Van Horn:
Oh really?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yes.
Jeremy Hart:
We saw a huge difference when they redid that. Now all that water is getting so much faster to that area right where our lift station is, right in that section somewhere on Line Street is where we have a problem.
[crosstalk 00:20:35].
Jeremy Hart:
It’s basically saying how much money we got to replace that and it’s a large section.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
It’s a very large section. It’s going to take a lot of money.
Nathan Van Horn:
Million, two million?
Jeremy Hart:
No, no, no, nothing like that but …
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
They already don’t think that they should be paying for it to begin with because you know it’s in town.
Jeremy Hart:
It’s in town, but they are. You’re not-
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
I’m paying for it.
Jeremy Hart:
Madalyn… everybody in that area, Bruce no you probably aren’t paying for that, but everybody on that side is paying for that Rapp Ditch.
Nathan Van Horn:
It’s the Rapp one?
Jeremy Hart
Yes. And that would help. And to really say, I mean Bob knows that parts bad only because he can see the numbers, so the rest of the gravity part we don’t know. So, it’s going to be as we fix things, it’s going to kind of be guess work. And IDEM is probably going to say, “Hey we’re going to have to watch this for awhile and see,” because if we get two inches here and three inches in an hour, it’s going to change. And if it’s spring [crosstalk 00:21:42]. Right, I mean it’s going to be one of those things where we may have to wait a year before they’ll go, “Okay you guys didn’t have any bypasses. Maybe you’ve got enough to where [inaudible 00:21:52]-
Bruce Johnson:
So, are you looking at replacing line or more?
Jeremy Hart:
Do you remember on those four that I gave you guys, or four or five that I turned in?
Bruce Johnson:
Yeah.
Jeremy Hart:
Okay. So, those were ones that I thought are fixable at some point. Now, are we narrowing down to one spot? No, that’s the problem, as Casey and I went through we know there’s a general area. So it’s basically gotten to the point where we’ve done everything we can to try and find those. We can isolate a little bit more somewhat, but we need to basically start replacing storm lines and just see if we can find that spot.
Bruce Johnson:
That’s what I want to know- are we replacing storm lines?
Jeremy Hart:
That’s what we’re going to end up having to do. We’re to that point where now we have to do that. Now I’ll try to, maybe we can narrow it down so it doesn’t cost us as much.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
But you’re still going to be tearing up roads and yards.
Jeremy Hart:
And a lot of them are in alleys.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yep.
Jeremy Hart:
One of the big ones I know is behind the Library and that’s a lot of asphalt. Line Street, when Casey and I went out there, and like I said I’ve done this a time or two and we can’t really pinpoint. Things aren’t making sense where it is. We may have to do some sewer work, too, because there may be infiltration that’s not allowing the smoke to go where we need it to, and that’s why it’s causing these problems and we can’t isolate it. And the other ones have to do with INDOT. They’re on their highways, so those are going to be expensive. We found a couple, as soon as we get that water main done and fix that sewer main, which, too, is an infiltration spot because there’s tree roots in it, we’re going to hit a couple of these [inaudible 00:23:34]. Hopefully we’ll be able to see. One in particular is right here at Liberty Street, Liberty and 33. Maybe we can hit that and go from there and do some isolated smoke testing again now that it’s dried out, because this is the ideal weather to do that because it’ll come right through the dirt.
Bruce Johnson:
Okay.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah, all those spots are on… it’s figure D1 of that packet.
Bruce Johnson:
You said figure D1?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah, that’s a big map view.
Jeremy Hart:
And there are two of them we think we may have fixed, we just got to smoke them and just see if we did. Bob’s still getting a lot of water, but we may have helped a little bit. So, the one there on Windsor, right on the 100 block.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah, right there.
Jeremy Hart:
And we didn’t check Mulberry Street when we redid Mulberry Street. That’s another one we need to smoke. So, when we get done with these two things, we’ll hit those.
Casey Erwin:
So the Rapp Ditch tile that you’re referring to is right here?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yes.
Casey Erwin:
So this is the portion of your tile [inaudible 00:25:06].
Jeremy Hart:
I’ll show you. So the ditch starts in the park. So it starts roughly right here, and then it winds its way around the church, comes back. Now they replaced all this right here, sorry-
Casey Erwin:
This is all new right?
Jeremy Hart:
Yes, yes, this is all new right in here.
Casey Erwin:
Right around to the Park
Jeremy Hart:
And this is all the old and it runs right through around here and ends up [inaudible 00:25:37]. This, where Winsor is, this section is the section that’s bad.
Casey Erwin:
So, through here…
Jeremy Hart:
Yeah, it follows Windsor, but when they did that, but it starts right here at the park in that low ground behind Otto’s.
Casey Erwin:
Okay. And the pump station runs all the time is right here.
Bob Gray:
Yep.
Casey Erwin:
To the Line Street [inaudible 00:26:01].
Jeremy Hart:
And somewhere right around there where Douglas Street. We think it’s between Douglas … I’m pretty sure it’s between Douglas and [inaudible 00:26:06]. And this part they’ve done different spots, connections, and we think it’s pretty good. And then years ago when this used to flood down here, they found a bad spot where some trees were. And as far as I know, that section is decent. So all these people pay the Rapp Ditch, and a lot of these… so what happens is there’s water coming from way up north, this water runs all the time. It never stops [inaudible 00:26:39] because they’ve tiled all those fields. Farm fields here, but it takes all this that comes in here. So when it rains, you’re getting water from all this and sections over here that are all coming down [crosstalk 00:26:51] along 900.
Nathan Van Horn:
So potentially all that then is [crosstalk 00:26:55]-
Jeremy Hart:
Yeah, it’s not just our water, it’s water that’s coming from north [crosstalk 00:27:01]. Like I said it runs constantly.
Bob Gray:
Yeah we get a rain that’s 330,000 extra gallons of water.
Jeremy Hart:
And what does one basin hold?
Bob Gray:
400.
Jeremy Hart:
400,000 there’s four of them.
Bob Gray:
So right there we could just take care of a portion of that.
Jeremy Hart:
Then there’s the thing that if we fixed that, that water’s got to go somewhere, so then we got to deal with that too.
Nathan Van Horn:
Well a lot of it’s going way up [crosstalk 00:27:38]. I’m just saying, I mean that’s not [crosstalk 00:27:42].
Bruce Johnson:
What about that field? Yeah, that’s where it’ll end up.
Bob Gray:
That’s where it goes to, yeah. That line goes through that field.
Bruce Johnson:
Can we buy that? [inaudible 00:27:59] Madalyn?
Jeremy Hart:
What? The Methodist church lot? Is that what you’re talking about?
Bruce Johnson:
[inaudible 00:28:16].
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
I mean… we could… but…
Jeremy Hart:
Why would we want to buy that? It’s low ground. They farm it. There’s two tiles coming through it.
Bob Gray:
[inaudible 00:28:21] open ditch.
Jeremy Hart:
Oh… to open that ditch up?
Bob Gray:
Is that what you’re trying to say?
Bruce Johnson:
Uh huh. Because if we-
Jeremy Hart:
I’m not going to say no that it won’t help [crosstalk 00:28:37].
Bruce Johnson:
If we shut off that water, it’s going to go there.
Jeremy Hart:
It’s going to go there no matter what because that’s the low area.
Bruce Johnson:
But are they going to blame us for it, for the responsibility of them flooding the ditch and then not getting any money from the crops anymore? [inaudible 00:28:56].
Jeremy Hart:
No, I don’t think it’s going to affect that area. [crosstalk 00:28:56] it’s going to probably go to the north, it’s going to be probably the church’s lot, and the north [inaudible 00:29:10] and just going to set there. But yeah, I don’t see [inaudible 00:29:14]. That water all runs right down to that lift station, and that’s a low spot. Soon as you get to Madalyn’s house, that’s basically the high spot. She’s the break between … she literally is the break between the north and the south [crosstalk 00:29:33]-
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Right everything else just flows downhill.
Jeremy HArt:
It’s a total different storm from her house, her and her neighbor. It all breaks, goes a different way to a different drain.
Bruce Johnson:
I remember we used to always sit in my backyard.
Jeremy Hart:
Yours goes down. You go to what we’re talking about. You’re the end. Douglas Street is about the end of the break here. Everybody else goes to the Johnson ditch.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
You can actually tell when it’s raining hard. Like right up Nila’s house, it basically just goes different ways.
Bruce Johnson:
I’ve had rain water end up in my basement before.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
We all have… Yeah.
Jeremy Hart:
So infiltration is big. It’s whether you want to spend the money, and we’re going to do some of it of course and hopefully we nail it, but it’s going to take time. And then IDEM is just going to sit and watch.
Bruce Johnson:
Which is the quickest one to fix? Is it going to be the alley [crosstalk 00:30:43]-
Jeremy Hart:
The alley, and again the only reason I say that is because those are dead-ends, it doesn’t go any farther. So if we just replace the storm on that, we should be able to find it and trace it somewhere. Now, is it going to be quick in a week? Probably not, because we’re going to have to find every gutter, every line up. But again, it doesn’t go any farther than that. Now, Line Street can go [crosstalk 00:31:05] we’re not sure.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
And I mean honestly that alley when we tore it up for Franklin Promenade, we found a bunch there. I mean just by tearing up that [crosstalk 00:31:16].
Jeremy Hart:
We fixed that part, but it’s the main storm that runs down that alley, which goes into [inaudible 00:31:23] right there at [inaudible 00:31:25].
Bruce Johnson:
Well I’d say we probably should fix the alley first, since that looks like it’s going to be the easiest to do, and probably the least expensive. [crosstalk 00:31:34].
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
I wouldn’t say that.
Jeremy Hart:
The alley’s probably a little bit more expensive, it’s just because we’ve got to replace the asphalt, that’s it. And there’s a gas main running right along, so it’s going to take more time. But we should be able to follow it. Now the problem is, Bob will never know until we get a decent storm to say, yeah hey it did knock it out, it did smoke in several places along that. So, [crosstalk 00:31:57] that’s one we can do and not have to mess with INDOT or anything. It’s in an isolated area.
Bruce Johnson:
If we keep Forker away with the backhoe-
Jeremy Hart:
Yeah.
Bruce Johnson:
… gas line, we should go-
Jeremy Hart:
Yeah, if I got on the backhoe, then so be it. So, we won’t hit even then. Yeah, and then Line Street, we were hoping to put that in with the-
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Community crossings.
Jeremy Hart:
Yeah with that, but since they closed that down, that can wait. It’s not like we can’t still smoke test and maybe we can find something and get it down. There’s a sinkhole, right now, in the spot where I think there’s a bad spot, that we’re going to have to fix. So we may go down there and set a manhole meeting and see if he can’t dig around with it a little bit, maybe we can find something.
Bruce Johnson:
Talking the alley or-
Jeremy Hart:
No, on-
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
On Line Street.
Bruce Johnson:
… Or Line, yeah.
Jeremy Hart:
Yeah, the gas company did something and there’s a sinkhole we found. I said I know that there’s a bad spot in there somewhere. Maybe we can do something with that, and help us. But it’s all guess work.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
I mean, we can fix those two spots and, I mean we have no idea how much capacity that’ll give us.
Jeremy Hart:
Yeah. It’s going to take time to see that. It’s just not a “We fixed it, Oh great”. Next day, we know, we don’t. Plus, then we need to start focusing on sump pumps again. People’s sump pumps are going in the sewer. So, that’s another good one, for days afterwards. And in the end, like Bob said, he’s taken out some of this infiltration, our problems are pretty much done. The plant’s running great. Running better than it’s ever ran.
Bob Gray:
If you’re going to do anything at the plant at all, if you’re going to spend any money, I would say it would be… You’re going to have to spend some money there because you got some bad spots for venting [inaudible 00:33:58], could start a fire.
Bruce Johnson:
Yeah.
Jeremy Hart:
Do you just want to go through the list? Do you just want to go ahead and start with the next part? [Crosstalk 00:34:02] Bob’s list of things he thinks that we need to jump on, and the things that we may be able to cut out.
Bob Gray:
Just right off the bat, the roof has to be fixed. Lights have to be fixed and the generator has to be upgraded.
Jeremy Hart:
Something new just came out last week while I was gone.
Bob Gray:
Our generator is, what, 30-
Jeremy Hart:
90.
Bob Gray:
20 something-
Jeremy Hart:
90 so 30 years.
Bob Gray:
Yeah, and-
Bruce Johnson:
Should we go to one of those gas generators?
Jeremy Hart:
No, no, it’s just that-
Bob Gray:
No, no, no, it’s-
Jeremy Hart:
It’s fine. [crosstalk 00:34:40].
Bob Gray:
It’s fine, but the actual generator itself is fine, it’s the generator part of it, PLC of it is so old they don’t even make parts for it.
Bruce Johnson:
Okay.
Bob Gray:
So if something goes wrong with it-
Jeremy Hart:
Because everything you see, any buttons you hit, that part is bad. The motor, everything else, is good.
Bob Gray:
Yup. So if anything goes bad with that, if something goes wrong with it, we won’t be able to… He just told me this two weeks ago. And he said… Because it took me that long to get a quote, he won’t be able to find any parts for it, so now’s the time to switch it over while it’s still working. Having problems, that’s like 13-
Jeremy Hart:
Yeah, Bob’s got a quote, I said, “Bring it tonight because that’s a significant”-
Bob Gray:
The generator, the roof, the lights. The concrete out there on the ditch is starting to go and that has to be looked at. The concrete around the clarifier, mixing box is falling in. So the clarifiers need to be cleaned, painted, gone through.
Jeremy Hart:
Wasn’t that part of [crosstalk 00:03:49].
Holly Miller:
Yeah.
Jeremy Hart:
But we already put that in, so.
Bob Gray:
And then my thinking is, if you put another clarifier out there for wet weather, but we use it all the time, it’ll probably help. Because we haven’t went actually out and got knocked by IDEM for, let’s see, it’s… We went out once last year, I believe, once the year before. We used to go out at least five or six times a year.
Jeremy Hart:
So, on that note, we haven’t worked on infiltration issues and then just slowly starting. We used to get an inch of rain and we’d go… There were times it just… It was a mess so.
Bob Gray:
I forgot to turn it around [crosstalk 00:36:33].
Jeremy Hart:
… Better than it used. But we can run faster than we used to too. [Crosstalk 00:36:39].
Bruce Johnson:
Pat yourself on the back again, Bobby.
Bob Gray:
No, I just am doing my job-
Jeremy Hart:
He gives the bugs a hotel night, on those nights.
Nathan Van Horn:
So then that would be about 615?
Jeremy Hart:
I’m sorry?
Nathan Van Horn:
Part… [inaudible 00:36:56] the final clarifiers 615,000. Would it be that? Or would it [crosstalk 00:36:59] just be on the first page.
Bob Gray:
This is just my first thing.
Nathan Van Horn:
A new clarifier and it’s most stuff … This is final clarifiers, 615,000. I should know. That was kind of the same thing.
Holly Miller:
Yeah, the new clarifier would be the splitter box, it would include the upgrading of the line, [inaudible 00:37:25] as well.
Nathan Van horn:
Okay, the new clarifiers going to be about 615?
Jeremy Hart:
And where’d you mark that as, number one?
Bob:
Well, if they’re going to do anything, yes. If you’re going to add anything-
Jeremy Hart:
So it’s a priority?
Bob Gray:
Yeah.
Nathan Van Horn:
So in just doing that …
Holly Miller:
Buy us some time?
Nathan Van Horn:
Yeah. Buy that [inaudible 00:37:46].
Bob Gray:
It would buy you time, that’s what you’re asking?
Nathan Van Horn:
Yeah, I guess, because, sorry, [inaudible 00:05:53], backup, because we haven’t asked IDEM to come out yet, have we? Are we just thinking later it’s a pretty good guess that if they came out that say, “Hey, you guys cannot take on anybody else.”
Jeremy Hart:
So… Was it last year I sent an email? Was it last year?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah. It was last year, I think.
Jeremy Hart:
So what I sent was, we were asking about-
Bob Gray:
Was it Blue Lake?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
It was RSD.
Jeremy Hart:
RSD?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Which got some questions to get thrown around.
Jeremy Hart:
[crosstalk 00:38:21] I remember when we talked a little bit about- She basically said the inspector wouldn’t answer the questions. She says, “I’m going to send you to someone else.” And so I asked a question, I said, “All right. So, we’re looking at these capacity issues. We’ve got this, this and this, maybe more.” And they said, “Yeah, we’re looking at your schedule.” Remember this was last year, not this year. She goes, “Yeah, you’re good. I think you can take people on.” She goes, “However, don’t go over.”
Bob Gray:
Don’t go out.
Jeremy Hart:
Yeah, so [crosstalk 00:38:51] it was one of those things where, yeah…. But now [crosstalk 00:38:56]
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
After Jeremy posed those questions and she said, “Don’t go over.” Then we went over once I think, then I started getting calls from IDEM’s attorneys.
Nathan Van Horn:
Oh really?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yes.
Casey Erwin:
When you say over you mean more [inaudible 00:39:15] clarifiers?
Jeremy Hart:
He had to open it up. [crosstalk 00:39:17] basin into the creek.
Casey Erwin:
Okay.
Bob:
I can keep it from going over the wall-
Jeremy Hart:
Yeah, we’ve got a spot we can keep it. Now you think, “Yeah, you have it right now, but don’t go over.”
Bob Gray:
The last inspection got was two weeks ago. That was the only markdown I got was the I&I.
Nathan Van Horn:
Really?
Bob Gray:
He looked at, he goes, “You’re over four times a year for over the” … What is it, 90% or 80?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
80.
Jeremy Hart:
We were over.
Bob Gray:
Some percent, we were over.
Jeremy Hart:
In the last two years, we’ve had extremely wet springs. We haven’t had frost, so things are just saturated in it.
Nathan Van Horn:
So we’ll get in, then, the new clarifier. We think that would then help?
Bob Gray:
It would help.
Nathan Van Horn:
Would it be enough to be able to then take on more people?
Bruce Johnson:
Or would we need the oxidation ditch too. [crosstalk 00:40:17].
Jeremy Hart:
We haven’t got that far yet, Bruce.
Bruce Johnson:
Okay. Well, I can see the action-
Jeremy Hart:
Hang on a minute.
Bruce Johnson:
… two million dollars on-
Jeremy Hart:
Hang on a minute, we’re getting to that one.
Bob Gray:
Do you know the percent of solids I can have in the ditch?
Casey Erwin:
The percentage?
Bob Gray:
I’m only 4%. I don’t know how much it is. I didn’t do the math on that. We’ve got a lot of moving there. Our problem is when we get those high flows, I have to keep the clarifier down, which means balking in the [inaudible 40:50] a clarifier is that round thing that was out there. Clear water comes to the top, shit goes to the bottom, separates. So all your clear water goes off and it goes out to the cliff. What it was, it was in the [crosstalk 00:41:02].
Jeremy Hart:
… Clean water.
Bob Gray:
So, when that water is coming in there so fast, that doesn’t have time to settle, so it’ll come up, balk, and then go out, and they’ll have to go out. We’ve got it down to where we can control out, but I’m only pumping 400 a minute. Yeah. And then the rest of it goes to the basins. With doing another clarifier, you’re going to be able to hold it longer and anything that we go over from there to go to the third clarifier. So yeah, you could probably put more people on. I won’t know until I see it. I hope that it would, that’s an engineering-
Holly Miller:
In practice, or what you’ve seen is that you have been able to put more flow through your oxidation ditch?
Bob Gray:
Yes I have.
Holly Miller:
I think that that’s what we were talking about with-
Bob Gray:
I could put a lot more flow through the-
Holly Miller:
Right.
Bob Gray:
I can put 600 to 700 through-
Holly Miller:
Right.
Bob Gray:
… If I can keep the clarifier down.
Holly Miller:
On paper, and on your permit is I think what IDEM needs to [crosstalk 00:42:17]
Casey Erwin:
This is something that I’ve hit on just a little bit, but I’m keeping my boundaries on it because we have to talk [inaudible 00:42:23] but what Bob’s saying is that when you go get your permit for this and you get rated for your oxidation ditch, this is the oxidation ditch which [inaudible 42:35] you added that ring, how long ago was that? Probably-
Bob Gray:
10 years ago.
Jeremy Hart:
15 years ago. [crosstalk 00:42:40]
Casey Erwin:
So IDEM almost tells you … They tell you a rating, like Holly’s talking about. And it’s based on typical residential or typical units of flow. So they say, “No matter what, this is sized for X” Well, what’s happening is Bob can actually get more than X through there, basically what we’re saying, right Bob?
Bob Gray:
Right.
Casey Erwin:
Yeah. You’re storing some of this so you can get more through here. So somehow we can prove that we’re getting more through this based on the data, but to Bob’s point, we still have this bottom layer where the sludge settles out the solids. That’s where we would add this to try to help justify using as much of this as possible. We talked to IDEM about that and they didn’t really tell us no, but they didn’t tell us yes. They said, “Well, we’d probably entertain that thought.” And, again, I don’t know what your thoughts on this, Bob, are. We think you’re doing that … You have the ability to do that because your BOD is local to this. Is that why do you think you’re in … Or does that, you don’t really … You know what I’m saying?
Bob Gray:
The reason I do that is water.
Casey Erwin:
Okay. Well, either way we would have to, you could cut some costs down. If you could justify it, we can get, based on record data, that we can get more through that oxidation ditch than what IDEM says. The problem with that is, I think we’re basing it on peak flows and I&I flows, which you may be having our cake and eat it too, because that rating that IDEM gives you is based on normal flow, that doesn’t have a high I&I. I think the other thing to keep in mind is, if you’re looking at a project, it’s one thing to look at a $100,000 project or a 500,000 or $400,000 project. But when that, when you start adding those projects up, if you don’t have cash on hand, then that means a bond. And I’m sure your rate consultants want to tell you whether it’s a $750,000 project or a $7.5 million project.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
You’re paying the same amount.
Casey Erwin:
You’re paying the same. You’re paying a hundred to $150,000 from all accounts. They’re probably going to tell you, in order for bond counsel to sign off on it, they’re going to have the engineer say, “Is this a 20 year loan, and do you have a 20 year project?” It’s like, if you’re getting the loan to do a project, and more than likely it’s going to be 20 years, whether it’s SRF or whether it’s municipal bond, you want to go spend $100 on a car and take it for 20 years, but you’re only going to drive it for five. We don’t care. That’s why, when Holly and I, we talked to everybody, we wanted to get all of the items on the table. And no way that we say, “Hey, you have to do a $10 million project.” We work on these all the time and it’s easy to come up with possible solutions. The hard part is, how do we fit it in that financial box that everybody can go look what’s the level of pain there.
Jeremy Hart:
[crosstalk 00:46:23] Let’s get to this oxidation-
Bob Gray:
I guess my point is, I’m looking out for the town. Do I hear [inaudible 00:46:36] ditch? Yep, go right ahead. In the back of my mind, you’re spending money I don’t think you have to. Even on down the road. I’m like him, I don’t care. It’s not coming out of my money. I’m not paying for it, but-
Bruce Johnson:
Yeah.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
But we are.
Jeremy Hart:
[crosstalk 00:46:58] We need to do it a different way, with the help of that clarifier.
Bob Gray:
Right. I think there’s no-
Jeremy Hart:
[crosstalk 00:47:03] that’s a huge chuck.
Bob Gray:
That’s a chunk.
Jeremy Hart:
… and oxidate [crosstalk 00:47:04] if we could do it a different way.
Holly Miller:
Yeah, again, with the IDEM permit, they see the size, they say that that’s .4 million gallons a day. [crosstalk 00:47:16] Yeah, .6. [crosstalk 00:00:47:24].
Bob Gray
They’re not bugging us if we’re not going over, so if we can-
Holly Miller
Yeah.
Bob Gray:
… Show them that we’re not going over, it’s just like Rick said.
Casey Erwin:
We have one other thing that was brought up and we are not privy to any discussions or [inaudible 00:47:44] anything like that, and we’ve worked with sewer districts. Again, this may be different in this situation because I know a new plant isn’t feasible for, I think, the areas we’re looking at, but when we’ve worked with sewer districts before it’s always been one option is, we build a new plant or option B is, we send it to municipality number X, Y, or Z. But X, Y, and Z, you always look at us and say, “Well, we’ll take your flow and you’re going to have a monthly rate, but in order for us to account for you, we have some infrastructure items that we have to account for.” That may vary and I know statute changes all the time. I also know those people close to Churubusco, So I know it’s a unique situation, but that’s usually one item that comes up during those negotiations.
Jeremy Hart:
So do you think we need that oxidation ditch at an extra rate or not? Or that was just an extra? You think we can do other things so that we don’t need that and save us two million dollars?
Casey Erwin:
The extra ring was what, eight-
Holly Miller:
Yeah, I think that’s [crosstalk 00:49:01] I put a clarification to the two million dollars is for if you decide that you do want to, and again, this is more detailed design. Right now, we’re in the planning stages, getting funding, but you could do an extra ring. They get upgrading, increasing the grass seeder plant, however much it is. You can add another ring or you could build a second oxidation ditch. So the price here is for the higher of these two, which is building a second oxidation ditch, not another ring. Again, that’s a detailed design decision. We just wanted to err on the side of caution with having-
Casey Erwin:
Cost wise, Holly-
Holly Miller:
Yeah.
Casey Erwin:
You’ve cost it out an extra ring-
Holly Miller:
We did.
Casey Erwin:
Before going through your questions.
Holly Miller:
Yeah.
Casey Erwin:
And it was small or it was-
Holly Miller:
Yeah, I think. [crosstalk 00:50:01]
Jeremy Hart:
We’re trying to eliminate some things…
Casey Erwin:
There’s two points to answer that question. The first point is, I think needing that oxidation ditch is, there’s two parts, practically what we’re doing and taking advantage of what Bob’s doing, and that’s what we want that [inaudible 50:14], because we’ve talked to IDEM about, “Can we take advantage of what we’re seeing?” So practically, no, you probably wouldn’t have to add it, but we can’t say that unless IDEM says, “Yes, we buy off on that.” So before you did anything, we’re talking about I&I, that maybe is a discussion you have as well. In terms of saying, “But they’re going to ask us, ‘How are you doing that?’” So somehow, we would have to look at the data and look at the flow rates and then you would say, “We’re actually getting” … What’s this rated? .4 now?
Holly Miller:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Casey Miller:
Instead of 0.4, maybe we’re getting .6 or whatever that may be, but you have to submit that to IDEM and see what they said. Again, I could be totally off base, but I … We work on a couple other projects, the only thing that’s really different about your plant versus other one is that low BOD. That’s the only thing we can think of is that because the water’s going in here, and time you’re running it through, and we can maybe take advantage of that. Again, we’re trying to take advantage of a situation that we have I&I and the water’s diluted.
Bob Gray:
Right.
Casey Erwin:
So [crosstalk 00:19:34].
Bob Gray:
That’s what you’re running through there is water.
Holly Miller:
Yeah. [crosstalk 00:51:39].
Bob Gray:
That’s really effluent.
Holly Miller:
mm-hmm.
Casey Erwin:
Right, but see that’s the trick you have with IDEM because we want to get rid of the I&I.
Bob Gray:
Right.
Casey Erwin:
But one of the advantages the I&I has created here is that we can actually run more water through there because it’s- No, [crosstalk 00:52:02].
Nathan Van Horn:
I’m sorry. [crosstalk 00:52:09] Right now there’s not much I&I?
Bob Gray:
No, that’s… Absolutely not. [crosstalk 00:52:10].
Casey Erwin:
But now you’re probably, what, .2?
Bob Gray:
Yes. Yeah.
Casey Erwin:
That’s the other thing, we want to look at that data, that average flow is like 0.34. That’s based on … It’s an average, it’s not necessarily a typical dry weather flow. The other thing I was going to mention is on, and again, I’m not trying to dodge your question-
Jeremy HArt:
No, I’m- I said we’re trying to eliminate things.
Casey Erwin:
Let’s say this extra rain, it really … Whether it’s 500,000 or whether it’s a million or whether it’s zero, I’m not saying that’s irrelevant, but the other way to look at this, if you look at all the pump stations and then you look at all the stuff here, whether this … And this makes it instead of a $3 million project that it makes a $3.8 million project, it doesn’t change the situation. It’s, what’d we say, every millions, what? $5.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Mm-hmm (affirmative)
Casey Erwin:
It’s $2.50, so I’m not saying it’s irrelevant, but we run across this all the time where we try to … The problem is you don’t … You got a big piece of pie, but you don’t have enough people. You can’t cut it enough pieces for everybody to pay for. This is worth looking into, and I think the first thing we would do is talk to IDEM about it and say, “Hey, how can we take advantage of it?” But if we can’t, that’s why we threw out … The worst case would be … Do this. Yeah, that seems like it’s, especially when you don’t know what’s going to happen with growth and with the sewer district. At the same time, there is this possibility, but even as a backup plan, can we try to get more flow through the existing ones? This is really the hardest part of all of it. The rest of this stuff is pretty typical. It’s replacing equipment, it’s adding the clarifier. Clarifiers for your type of plant are usually always the bottleneck. But this is really the hard part in terms of us trying to get it approved. Whether you don’t grow or whether you do grow, but, again, you’re making a $3 million project a $4 million project. It’s not like it’s a … And that’s if you do everything. I mean, we were talking about, “Well, can we just do the oxidation ditch?” Well, at 600,000, I assume the town doesn’t have…. I mean clarifiers. I assume you don’t have 600,000 to do a clarifier and not take a bond out. When you start looking at these projects, it’s almost like, “Oh, we’re in this situation. If I got to get a loan, how do I want to” … You either do a project or it’s almost like you don’t do a project, unfortunately.
Bob Gray:
Does the Town know the number it’s going after, bring it to the sewer line. You have a number. How much are you wanting to grow?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Well, if we take on the RSD, it’d be 150 people. They’re talking between 45 and 75 at Blue Lake.
Bob Gray:
I know those [crosstalk 00:55:20]. Are we looking out after that?
Casey Erwin:
That one table is, really, a good indicator.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah.
Nathan Van Horn:
[inaudible 00:55:34] about that, then there’s another, how many homes?
Jeremy Hart:
About-
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
130 plus homes for residential developments in all.
Casey Erwin:
Yeah, I think there’s ones that we helped to identify as-
Jeremy Hart:
Yeah. It’s 150. You’re going South, you’re going West. [crosstalk 00:55:50]
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
It’s up there on the screen.
Jeremy Hart:
What is IDEM per house right now? What are those numbers?
Holly Miller:
310.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
310.
Holly Miller:
Gallons per day.
Jeremy Hart:
Forever, they only owe-
Holly Miller:
It’s 3.62 [crosstalk 00:56:07].
Jeremy Hart:
So right there is your numbers. So we’ve got, what, 200, what do you say, 225 to 250? That would probably almost immediately want to go [inaudible 00:56:26] lake. [crosstalk 00:56:28].
Casey Erwin:
On that table there, so they’re kind of small.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Where is that?
Casey Erwin:
Oh, I’m sorry, right there to the right. Existing homes. So Blue Lake was 75,000.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
That’s what’s in our contract.
Jeremy Hart:
That’s what you have to give them.
Casey Erwin:
That’s what you have to give them by contract?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yes.
Casey Erwin:
Existing development outside of the corporate limits. That’s all-
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
That’s the RSD.
Casey Erwin:
That’s all RSD. So we got 90 here.
Holly Miller:
110 to the South, 50 to the West
Casey Erwin:
… And then we tried to identify some other-
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Some future growth for South side expansion. Because there is that 40 acres that could possibly be developed across from Dollar General. And then Miles’s low density, commercial, and then expanding Threshers. If that ever is to happen.
Casey Erwin:
And that’s very unique for a community of your size to have that much items on paper that are at least talked about. Usually, we just … We’re working on a treatment plant now that’s about the same size as Busco. It’s 20 years, but they don’t have anything on paper. I guess what I’m saying is, is that it’s very unique. When we were going through this list, it’s like, there’s a lot of interest there. Again, I’m not trying to push growth and I’m not trying to push a project.
Jeremy Hart:
Oh, we are.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah, definitely.
Casey Erwin:
I just want to make sure that we’re just kind of talking here in terms of some of the stuff that we noticed with your numbers.
Jeremy Hart:
But just finish this oxidation. So if we get an IDEM to buy in, not doing anything to our oxidation ditch, but try to increase our capacity and our clarifiers and everything else. [crosstalk 00:58:31].
Holly Miller:
[inaudible 00:58:35] creep up on it.
Jeremy Hart:
And that all happens [inaudible 00:58:45].
Holly Miller:
It’s working on it, on the backend [crosstalk 00:58:47].
Jeremy Hart:
Whenever all this happens.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah, we’re going to need the capacity [crosstalk 00:58:55].
Jeremy Hart:
Even after all this we’ve done, we’re going to hit-
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Now, granted that might be 15 years down the road.
Jeremy Hart:
Yeah, it depends on what those other residential developments that we don’t know about come in.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Right.
Bob Gray:
Then at that point you could come in and put a ring on. Unless you all want to put it on. Like I said, I haven’t knocked anything, but [crosstalk 00:59:18].
Jeremy Hart:
We can’t talk them in to say, “Hey, Bob can run way more than when we’ve got there,” and try it.
Holly Miller:
I think it’s definitely worth explaining.
Jeremy Hart:
And trying it. [crosstalk 00:59:32] To eliminate-
Bob Gray:
But it’s water.
Jeremy Hart:
… and not have the taxpayers pay at this time.
Bob Gray:
But like you’re saying, it’s not BOD-
Casey Erwin:
Right.
Bob Gray:
So if I put BOD in there, I should get better.
Casey Erwin:
Yeah, it [inaudible 00:59:46]. But, again, you see what we’re take- We’re having our cake and eating it too.
Bob Gray:
Right, yeah.
Casey Erwin:
Because, we’re [crosstalk 00:59:51] need to actually help in that particular item.
Casey Erwin:
And that’s what Rex said, “You shot yourself in the butt.” But I didn’t.
Jeremy Hart:
He’s our inspector from IDEM. Probably shouldn’t have [inaudible 01:00:05].
Bob Gray:
We shot ourselves in the butt. Because I didn’t [inaudible 01:00:11] Before it went out a lot, but now it doesn’t and we kept up on that. Going out and this wouldn’t be a point. We would be doing it. Period. IDEM would make you.
Jeremy Hart:
We’d be on a ban.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah, we would be on a sewer ban.
Jeremy Hart:
[crosstalk 01:00:30] fine us, and say, “You have to do this, this, and this.” Which we’ve done before.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah. There’d be a moratorium on growth and expansion and all that.
Jeremy Hart:
We would just make it stick [inaudible 01:00:40.
Casey Erwin:
So when we-
Nathan Van Horn:
We just have to do-
Jeremy Hart:
Then we'd have to [crosstalk 01:00:44].
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
No, you don’t want that. [crosstalk 01:00:53] Leo just-
Jeremy Hart:
[crosstalk 01:00:57] That was a pain in the butt and there was like $5,000 we could have used somewhere else. [crosstalk 01:01:00]
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Leo just did … Was under a moratorium. Yeah. [crosstalk 01:01:07]
Casey Erwin:
When we look at this list, we talked about clarifiers, right?
Bob Gray:
Yep.
Jeremy Hart:
We’re in agreement, that definitely [crosstalk 01:01:16].
Bob Gray:
… through the roof.
Jeremy Hart:
You guys have that list? You have that list?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah.
Nathan Van Horn:
[crosstalk 01:01:24] down here. [crosstalk 01:01:26].
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
This is a different list in there but I’m just-
Jeremy Hart:
So, Ron, you’ve got your list? Do you want us to go ahead and go through this?
Bob Gray:
That’s pretty much … The things that have to be done now was roof, lights, repair the generator.
Casey Erwin:
The control buildings, maintenance [crosstalk 00:01:01:48].
Bob Gray:
The generator’s the new one.
Holly Miller:
Is the light sight lights?
Bob Gray:
Sight lights, yeah. [crosstalk 01:01:55].
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah, that’s down there, 11.
Bob Gray:
Take in to repair the clarifiers and fixing those.
Jeremy Hart:
[inaudible 01:02:01] Then the clarifier we already talked about. We know that’s a high priority.
Bob Gray:
Now do you have repair the clarifier to [inaudible 01:02:13]? Okay.
Casey Erwin:
Yeah, and do the head works right?
Bob Gray:
Yes, I want that head works done. You’re talking about moving the pipes, the mains?
Casey Erwin:
Yeah.
Bob Gray:
Yep. To the front of the plant, yep.
Casey Erwin:
Digester improvements and blowers.
Bob Gray:
Yep. [crosstalk 01:02:32]
Casey Erwin:
I guess what my point here is, we’re still … I agree 100% so we’re looking at the digesters, the maintenance building.
Bob Gray:
Yep.
Casey Erwin:
Okay.
Bob Gray:
And you got the blowers, which is the-
Casey Erwin:
We got blowers.
Bob Gray:
The digesters, is that included in the-
Casey Erwin:
The phosphor removal, we have to do that, right?
Bob Gray:
Yeah, the phosphorous removal, I’m down to 1.7 now, just doing it biologically.
Casey Erwin:
But you’re using the oxidation ditch?
Bob Gray:
Yep. My backup to that would be a filter. Have you guys looked at any of the filters?
Casey Erwin:
No.
Bob Gray:
Okay. Would you like to look at one?
Casey Erwin:
Sure.
Holly Miller:
Sure.
Bob Gray:
250,000.
Casey Erwin:
Okay.
Bob Gray:
You got to feel like if you had our tanks [crosstalk 01:03:29]. Okay, so-
Holly Miller:
I’m sorry.
Jeremy Hart:
Casey, what were the ones … Which ones did you not circle there? [crosstalk 01:03:40]
Holly Miller:
So there’s 140?
Casey Erwin:
How about we leave this on here because it’s virtually the same. Equalization basin liners, we got to fix those, right? The liners.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Basin liners.
Bob Gray:
I’m hoping we’re not going to be using them again. [crosstalk 01:03:56] at some point they will.
Holly Miller:
So basically the entire list is still valid except for maybe non-potable water, but that just saves you money from paying the water?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
From paying the water.
Casey Erwin:
So with the treatment plant, the total cost before with the new oxidation dish was, without a contingency?
Holly Miller:
Without a contingency, 4.2.
Casey Erwin:
And then-
Holly Miller:
And the oxidation ditch is about two.
Casey Erwin:
So, it was about 2.2? Okay, without a contingency. So, even with the contingency, you’re looking at … and with a ring you’re looking at about three to three-and-a-half, without a ring you’re looking at 2.2 to two-and-a-half at the treatment plant. [crosstalk 01:04:49]. And we can give you more numbers, I’m just the point here is I mean we still got a big project. We still have a, what was it $5 per [crosstalk 01:05:07].
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Million, and no, that’s just for the plant, that’s not counting anything else.
Casey Erwin:
So, pump stations were-
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Well, they’re always not in this anyway. That we’re already paying out of pocket. [crosstalk 01:05:23].
Jeremy Hart:
There were two that were both part of this, however if we want to jump on it we’re going to take care of it.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah, or else we’ll wait until 2022 [crosstalk 01:05:35]-
Jeremy Hart:
Almost three quarters of what it is two-thirds. It’s just going to take us longer to do it than [inaudible 01:05:42]. That’s the biggest thing. We’re just not fast.
Bruce Johnson:
But we can do it? We have the people, and the [crosstalk 01:05:48].
Jeremy Hart:
It’s just going to take time, and then Madalyn’s going to have to come up with some funding. And again, in the end we may not pave the alley. We may have to wait, restone it.
Bruce Johnson:
Okay.
Ron Felger:
[inaudible 01:06:07] some of those things. What could transpire where the town would have to go ahead with some of those improvements?
Bob Gray:
What would transpire if IDEM would make us do that? [crosstalk 01:06:27].
Ron Felger:
Just really need to as far as growth. [crosstalk 01:06:28].
Jeremy Hart:
Yeah, one to five. [crosstalk 01:06:38]. We ran at almost 100% for what four months? [crosstalk 01:06:52]. We had a wet spring, so [crosstalk 01:06:57]. So, if they-
Bruce Johnson:
If they see us making improvements, they’ll kind of back off.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah.
Jeremy Hart:
Like I said once we start to do it, but the problem is we just can’t, other than Line Street we just can’t, we’re just going to see the result because we can’t control the rain and the weather. [inaudible 01:07:38] one basin doesn’t go over or fill up, then we know we’re making improvements. Because really in the end it’s going to be him going, “Hey I think we did something.”
Bob Gray:
And as soon as they did the project out here, like Jeremy said earlier, I went from it coming into the plant and quitting in eight hours, to it coming in the plant and not quitting for three days. That’s what makes me think it’s a backup problem.
Bruce Johnson:
Now, it went for three days?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yes, constantly.
Bob Gray:
Constantly.
Bruce Johnson:
okay.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Which is burning up our [crosstalk 01:08:09]-
Jeremy Hart:
It’s holding that in the line until it hits the lift station.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah, so it’s burning up the motors in our lift, too.
Jeremy Hart:
But normally it would have sat in that pipe because that was old clay pipe that was different sizes. It was partially full, so it would just sit there and it would just slowly work its way down. Well now, it’s going boom right to our lift stations.
Bruce Johnson:
Okay. And that’s coming basically from those fields?
Jeremy Hart:
Yeah, that’s all that is.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
And north side of town.
Jeremy Hart:
And the north end of the park, their field, diamonds.
Nathan Van Horn:
To kind of piggy back off of Ron, I mean couldn’t technically since we owe so much to Blue Lake and they’re wanting to do something like would that put us in a pickle to have to do something to fulfill our obligation to them? Like I don’t know as far as legally but if they say, “Hey we want to use this,” wouldn’t we kind of need to do whatever we can do that?
Jeremy Hart:
Well the thing is it’s still an IDEM issue. They’re going to have to go to IDEM.
Nathan Van Horn:
So then-
Jeremy Hart:
But IDEM’s probably going to go … well he’s going to look at what our data is from this year, well they’ll look at the last three years probably.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
And I mean I could be wrong, but then couldn’t they have legal action against us because we don’t have …
Nathan Van Horn:
That’s what it’s saying it’s not our fault we can’t, but then it seems like at some point [inaudible 01:09:39] for wanting to do this, so you got to do what you got to do to fix it.
Jeremy Hart:
But they’ve also got infiltration issues.
Casey Erwin:
Was their system completely installed? So the low pressure system’s in, we’re just waiting for people to hook up?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah.
Bob Gray:
Well there’s a new project going up
Jeremy Hart:
They might put a new development in [crosstalk 01:10:02].
Nathan Van Horn:
Which from our standing is kind of weighing on us though because they’re wanting to make sure we can do this before they can go ahead and start bringing it out, and so-
Ron Felger:
[inaudible 01:10:13].
Nathan Van Horn:
Yes. I guess that’s kind of going back to one of the questions as far as knowing for sure that we wouldn’t be able to do that. I guess are we kind of waiting for them to go to IDEM to come to us to say yes or no whether or not-
Jeremy Hart:
They would have to have their site plan together and everything if they’re going to have potential customers and [crosstalk 01:10:45]. Yeah, they got to do everything first and then turn it in and see-
Nathan Van Horn:
But they’re [inaudible 01:10:46] on us to try and say [inaudible 01:10:51].
Jeremy Hart:
Yeah, they’re going to spend a lot of money and it may take a couple years to get it back.
Bob Gray:
And there’s a little birdie saying that they’re going to put in their own plant.
Jeremy Hart:
Which I however doubt that would happen because unless they actually put in a waste water plant, they’re not going to let them put basins in. They’re doing the best thing they can do by sending it to us where we’re treating it properly.
Bob Gray:
And we already got it established.
Bruce Johnson:
Well, if they hook up with RSD.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
That’s what I was saying.
Jeremy Hart:
To put a plant, do you know what it costs us a day to run that plant? What it would cost them to build this new plant out there and just take that? [crosstalk 01:11:52] that cost. [crosstalk 01:11:53]. And Bob and I talked about it, there’s no way … what do you guys say? There’s no way they’re going to let them come off something that’s the best thing they can have in a waste water plant.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Huntertown’s plant was what 20 million? [crosstalk 01:12:06]. Oh was it 15? Still. Yeah, Huntertown just built theirs three or four years ago, theirs was 15.
Nathan Van Horn:
Is it a pretty good sized one?
Jeremy Hart:
It is.
Nathan Van Horn:
Rolls Royce of plants?
Jeremy Hart:
Yeah, so at that point I would just go, I’m not listening.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Their sewer rates are also minimum $110 a month. Their sewer rates are like $110 a month too.
Speaker 20:
Just for sewer?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah.
Nathan Van Horn:
Wow.
Jeremy Hart:
So, they’re going to have to raise their rates if they want to build something like that.
Nathan Van Horn:
But you’re saying Blue Lakes is?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
No, I’m talking Huntertown.
Nathan Van Horn:
Compared to our minimum of 30?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
We are one of the lowest in the state.
Jeremy Hart:
It’s 82.50.
Nathan Van Horn:
You pay $82? And we pay 30 minimum?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
For sewer it’s 33 something.
Nathan Van Horn:
And their minimum is 115, whatever you said?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah.
Bruce Johnson:
For just sewer?
Jeremy Hart:
For just sewer.
Bruce Johnson:
Holy moly.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
And that’s normal for lake communities too. Very normal for lake communities.
Bob Gray:
[inaudible 01:13:13].
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah, and that’s just for sewer.
Bruce Johnson:
Wow.
Jeremy Hart:
So again, I think it’s basically, we’ll promise we’ll do it [inaudible 01:13:23]. Buy us some time, maybe we can knock some stuff out and then we’ll work together in trying to get the infiltration done. And like I said, they still have infiltration issues themselves. [crosstalk 01:13:31].
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
The only problem that we’re going to encounter, I mean right now we’ve got the RSD knocking down our door, and they want a deal and they wanted it yesterday.
Bruce Johnson:
I thought they were going to be here.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
No. [crosstalk 01:13:45].
Nathan Van Horn:
We were just going to talk about this [inaudible 01:13:49].
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
We don’t need them coming in and [crosstalk 01:13:52].
Jeremy Hart:
The other thing we don’t need to stay here another four hours.
Nathan Van Horn:
I think any talks with them would be kind of saying, “Hey if you’re wanting to do this this’ll what we’ll need out of it.”
Jeremy Hart:
The RSD?
Nathan Van Horn:
Yeah.
Jeremy Hart:
Because honestly we haven’t even got the contract amendment right?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
No, we got an interlocal.
Jeremy Hart:
Did we all agree to it?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
No.
Jeremy Hart:
So we haven’t even got to that part yet, where we say-
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
No, and we just got it last week.
Jeremy Hart:
Well we like your idea [inaudible 01:14:23].
Bob Gray:
How long are you talking it would take to build this? [crosstalk 01:14:33].
Holly Miller:
What’s that?
Jeremy Hart:
A year?
Holly Miller:
For construction?
Jeremy Hart:
Yeah, just the wastewater plant.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Well you’re going to have to go through bond hearings and … yeah, two years. [crosstalk 01:14:53].
Casey Erwin:
At least six to nine months [inaudible 01:14:56] and one to three months [inaudible 01:14:57]. A month for [crosstalk 01:15:00]. Two-and-a-half to three months for bond council and rate increase. That themselves is about a year to 18 months. Once you figure out what is the project. And that’s assuming you go regular bond where you don’t have a lot of the other red tape during the process.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
So going down the list, we discussed what Bob needs at the plant. The next thing is pump station improvements, which all of them need a generator. I mean bottom line they have to get a generator no matter what.
Jeremy Hart:
So that’s in the list that has to be in the top 10.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yes, yes.
Jeremy Hart:
That just needs to be done. [crosstalk 01:15:56].
Bob Gray:
That’s an instant.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
It’s an instant. [crosstalk 01:16:00].
Jeremy Hart:
We have been extremely lucky that any new projects like that, they require it
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
And then Bob I know wanted … which one was it? Clingerman needs to be redone.
Jeremy Hart:
There’s two lift stations.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Right?
Bob Gray:
Yeah, Clingerman and the school [inaudible 01:16:29].
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah.
Bob Gray:
Yeah.
Bruce Johnson:
I see at C&A pump station we have maintenance capacity?
Jeremy Hart:
Yeah, that one has to be updated for us to take on anybody south [crosstalk 01:16:42].
Bruce Johnson:
Okay.
Jeremy Hart:
That was only built and designed for C&A and a few others.
Bruce Johnson:
Okay.
Jeremy Hart:
So yes, that one had to be done [inaudible 01:16:56].
Holly Miller:
So, basically all of [inaudible 01:16:59] members-
Jeremy Hart:
Which we might be able to get some money from RSD from that because they’re going to take the bulk of that [crosstalk 01:17:00]. So, I got to say the ones he wants done, he wants to change them back to the way [crosstalk 01:17:14] different pumps. Are they working? Yes. Does he have to work on them a lot? Yes, because they’re not the same. His former boss changed those out. So, I mean there’s potential there. If there’s one [inaudible 01:17:44] Bob wants to take one or [inaudible 01:17:46] change them both out.
Bob Gray:
The school doesn’t give us as much problems as Clingerman.
Jeremy Hart:
It doesn’t give us a lot of infiltration. There is infiltration in that area, but it doesn’t seem to give us much problems. Where your dad lives… it’s that section. When the school added on, that gym and stuff, then it went from gravity to having a lift.
Casey Erwin:
It looks like the pump stations [inaudible 01:18:39] maybe [inaudible 01:18:40] on the side [inaudible 01:18:40] as needed [inaudible 01:18:40].
Jeremy Hart:
What? I’m sorry, I didn’t hear you.
Casey:
It’s still in the project. I mean that’s all checked off, need to be done, correct?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yes.
Holly Miller:
I don’t think that [inaudible 01:18:55] themselves. I think it was just a [inaudible 01:18:58] maybe not having to necessarily do this whole conversation. [crosstalk 01:19:05].
Jeremy Hart:
That’s a wish list that he wants to get rid of or change.
Bob Gray:
Yes, I like to get rid of those two stations.
Jeremy Hart:
And the Clingerman one is the worst. [crosstalk 01:19:15].
Casey Erwin:
Yeah, so before we take on the separation projects [inaudible 01:19:30] here and those [crosstalk 01:19:34] be done in house- the alley and hopefully the community crossing program [inaudible 01:19:38].
Jeremy Hart:
We would hope if they come back-
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
If they come back with community crossing, yes.
Jeremy Hart:
I think I’m going to hold out on Line Street unless we see we have to dig that up because we’re getting pressure to knock out infiltration. I would like to see that go through that.
Casey Erwin:
You could do both in parallel. I mean you could include the Line Street in the project, but then when community crossing comes back you can just slide it over to that if need be. That’s one option.
Jeremy Hart:
Even if the projects finished?
Casey Erwin:
I guess I don’t know [crosstalk 01:20:11]-
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Oh you’re saying put it into the bond right now?
Jeremy Hart:
So rotate those [crosstalk 01:20:17].
Casey Erwin:
Here’s the other thing, you’re not going to take your bond out for another 18 months.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah, exactly.
Casey Erwin:
So the other thing they’re going to tell you is you’re probably going to need a bond anticipation note. So, my point is what you could do is with the Line Street project you could say “hey, let’s get it designed, let’s get it ready to go” and by next January, next spring the sewer projects not going to be ready yet, but by that time we’ll know if we got the community crossing program and you can slide it out of the bond and put it in the community crossing project where you’re getting 75 cents on the dollar for it.
Jeremy Hart:
And then use that money on one of the other projects. [crosstalk 01:21:04].
Casey Erwin:
Or just reduce the amount of the bond.
Jeremy Hart:
Yeah, exactly. No, that makes sense.
Casey Erwin:
With that mask on, I can never tell if you’re agreeing. [crosstalk 01:21:23]. Your current bond how many years you got left on it?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Seven.
Casey Erwin:
Seven, okay.
Bruce Johnson:
And it was 20 to begin with.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah. But no, I think we did discuss just getting it designed now, and then no matter what.
Holly Miller:
With all projects at the very beginning we start high with the hopes of dwindling it down as we get more details. So now we don’t want to tell you that it’s going to cost $7 million when it comes down to $7.5, not that we’re over inflating it, but there’s a lot of details.
Jeremy Hart:
You estimated high on these, right?
Holly Miller:
Correct.
Jeremy Hart:
That’s what I thought.
Holly Miller:
But yeah, as you get more details in the design, your contingency goes down but it will be replaced with those more detailed items, [inaudible 01:22:42] piping and pumps and everything that you might need. [inaudible 01:22:52].
Jeremy Hart:
It looks like right now we didn’t get rid of a lot.
Casey Erwin:
If you can’t [inaudible 01:23:07] buy off on that oxidation ditch.
Jeremy Hart:
And in the end that’s what it is.
Casey Erwin:
We’re just adding a ring into the ditch, say you’ve saved a million bucks. Which is a million bucks, but it’s still a big project. [inaudible 01:23:22].
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
So I guess the final line item would be the sanitary sewer expansion at 1.2 million. So, is this just something that we don’t do right now?
Jeremy Hart:
Running a sewer line’s out.
Nathan Van Horn:
That to me then is where we bring in the RSD and say hey that’s what we’re looking at.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Right now the RSD’s plans show that they are running their line from where ours stops all the way to Commerce Drive, but then that would be part of the RSD’s district.
Bruce Johnson:
Which is that where Miles’s project is Commerce Drive?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yes.
Jeremy Hart:
My suggestion is that’s the one we would like to keep.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yes.
Jeremy Hart:
We want to keep that line all the way to Franklin.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yes.
Jeremy Hart:
We own that, we say what goes.
Casey Erwin:
So this is basically I don’t know, somewhere in here there’s a pump station for gravity and all this, and then force maining up to service all of this property.
Jeremy Hart:
We want to keep our annexation [inaudible 01:24:27].
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Our annexation prospects open.
Jeremy Hart:
And we lose that if we give that to them.
Casey Erwin:
Yeah and you lose this?
Jeremy Hart:
Yeah, that and we want to keep going south [crosstalk 01:24:39]. Yes. The only thing I can suggest that we might be able to loosen up a little money, but we’d have to talk to Miles, is not running the sewer main stuff through Commerce, we just stop at the road and then maybe work out something. We would lose a little bit, I don’t know how much.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
It’s not that much.
Jeremy Hart:
But I mean if we have to cut something.
Bruce Johnson:
So we wouldn’t go all the way to Franklin?
Jeremy Hart:
No, we would but we’d just run our sewer to Commerce, the manholes and everything else and maybe we can work out something with Miles, if we need to cut something. I mean I would like to see us do it all and then [inaudible 01:25:25] deal with the streets and everything else.
Casey Erwin:
We have to [inaudible 01:25:27] I think it just changed here at the first of the year. But the other thing you could consider is [inaudible 01:25:34] project like the pump station is sized for all of this plus going south you could set up an area connection fee just for this section.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Which I think we were going to do anyway, and we already are doing that.
Jeremy Hart:
We’ve already kind of done that.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah.
Jeremy Hart:
Well, we’ve only had one or two people hookup so I mean it’s really in an infant stage.
Casey Erwin:
If you truly want this, and don’t want somebody else to get it [inaudible 01:26:06] we’ll serve this, but that’s our first right of refusal. If that’s the direction the town needs to go.
Jeremy Hart:
So basically if we send a tap fee, and then [crosstalk 01:26:22] to help recoup costs that we did to run that-
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Which yeah, we did that with Integrity [crosstalk 01:26:30] well they paid the $2500 tap fee but then they also tapped on another $10,000.
Jeremy Hart:
And that helps recoup our cost for running.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Running to them.
Jeremy Hart:
Running out there.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Which is something that I mean when Mark and I discussed it with Franklin Electric, that was something that they were open to discussing, or open to doing.
Jeremy Hart:
So there is something there that we can potentially bring back some of those costs. The waste water plant upgrade is really the bulk of this. That’s why we’re really doing this.
Bruce Johnson:
Is for the plant?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah, the other stuff’s just-
Jeremy Hart:
Well the plan is to go south.
Bruce Johnson:
Yeah.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
So yeah we didn’t really cut much.
Nathan Van Horn:
Even if it’s five bucks, right?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
10 bucks.
Jeremy Hart:
If IDEM buys into the oxidation, right there is a savings if we can get it to work. And like I said if we had to cut a lift station for now, but eventually we’re going to have to do it anyway.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
And it’s not that much, I mean grand scheme it’s not that much. The lift station upgrades.
Jeremy Hart:
Which Clingerman needs done no matter what.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah, they spend a lot of time there.
Bob Gray:
We’re going to have to redo those, I put it on a two year rotation and they did it [inaudible 01:28:24] because we started having problems after that [inaudible 01:28:57].
Casey Erwin:
With the EQ basins, some infiltration is probably good, but not nearly as much as [inaudible 01:29:04].
Jeremy Hart:
He doesn’t want to get rid of all of it [inaudible 01:29:05].
Bob Gray:
Yeah, right. [crosstalk 01:29:07].
Jeremy Hart:
If we don’t have some infiltration the plant will not run right, that’s why we’re thinking about just leaving Windsor as it is. [crosstalk 01:29:14] no matter what. But if we leave that one, leave Windsor maybe that will give us enough infiltration [inaudible 01:29:29] 10,000 a house to redo everything, separate everything.
Nathan Van Horn:
So we potentially took a million off the plant? [crosstalk 01:29:54].
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
It really depends on IDEM.
Nathan Van Horn:
Potentially, so maybe now we’re down to three million is that right?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
That’s just for the plant. [crosstalk 01:30:01].
Jeremy Hart:
Like Holly said, that’s inflating.
Nathan Van Horn:
Yeah.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
And I mean guys this is a preliminary report, when we go out to bid it could come in completely different.
Casey Erwin:
Saying that, was that total or is that constructional that we were just referencing?
Holly Miller:
That is constructional oh wait, hold on.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
No this is non-construction cost. [crosstalk 01:30:28].
Casey Erwin:
Sorry, I just wanted to make sure-
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Well the total budget includes contingency and non-construction. So, 6.25.
Holly Miller:
Yeah, 6.25.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
But taking off the oxidation ditch would take off three million.
Casey Erwin:
Because it’s percentages are very high level.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Right. That includes your bond council fees and stuff, and engineering.
Casey Erwin:
Right.
Nathan Van Horn:
I’m trying to get an idea of okay what’s the most that we want to try and add onto people’s billing, and then [inaudible 01:31:04]. So is it possible for us to even get this done? I don’t know. With this I’m just trying to figure out. I mean one thing that does kind of help too is like we’re talking two, three years probably before everything [inaudible 01:31:20]. So I mean that gets some sort of heads up, and it’s not like hey we’re going to tell everybody starting in three months your bill’s going to go up by 30 bucks.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah, but [crosstalk 01:31:34]. What’s that?
Bob Gray:
How much right now should it have gone up?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Four bucks per 1,000.
Jeremy Hart:
It’s just to get us to where [crosstalk 01:31:42].
Nathan Van Horn:
So it seems like everything else goes up people just pay it, but when this goes up … gas could go up $1 a gallon in a matter of [crosstalk 01:31:50].
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
No, I mean we know … and we put in water in the bills for the trash increase, and I know for a fact starting on Monday when people get their bills we will have non-stop calls about it. Even though there’s a letter in there explaining, “Hey you guys have been paying less than what we’ve been charged for the past five years.”
Jeremy Hart:
Didn’t we have a surplus on that?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
And we ate it all. [inaudible 01:32:17].
Nathan Van Horn:
They get too comfortable with how convenient it is to have stuff like this. [crosstalk 01:32:23].
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Again if Ron’s septic system goes out, how much are you paying for your new septic?
Ron Felger:
Well, we’re kind of babying it right now… And they never fail when it’s convenient
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Right. [crosstalk 01:32:42].
Bob Gray:
I got some stuff that will fix that.
Jeremy Hart:
So in the end we knocked down some infiltration, that’s going to help figure out the oxidation thing. And that’s really what we have to go on, see what they’re going to say with that.
Ron Felger:
What are the other Whitley County communities paying? How do we compare with their sewer rates?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
I know that… I believe we’re lower, and they were under an agreed order though. I think that theirs were like minimum 58 or so I want to say. But yeah, I mean they were under an agreed order, I think they just got out from that. And I know that we’re lower than South Whitley. We’re one of the lowest in this region. [crosstalk 01:33:42].
Ron Felger:
I also want to hear what the [inaudible 01:33:43] and where you’re going to be five, 10 years down the road.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
And we’ve not been where we’ve needed to be since I’ve been here, probably before that. [crosstalk 01:34:00].
Jeremy Hart:
The plant for 2010, I think the last was 2009, the significant one? [crosstalk 01:34:09].
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah, but still it was still under because-
Jeremy Hart:
I mean look you’ve still got 11 years, we’re still under everybody else. It’s hard to compare-
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
The 2009 sewer rate I think it said it should have went up to like $41 for minimum, and it went to $32 or something. [crosstalk 01:34:33]. 2009.
Nathan Van Horn:
2009 it was going to be 41, and we’re at?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
We’re at 33.90.
Nathan Van Horn:
We’re still under what it should have been in 2009?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yes. [crosstalk 01:34:44]. I’m very well aware.
Jeremy Hart:
We’re just pushing it to somebody else down the road.
Nathan Van Horn:
So we’re like what was it 41?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). [crosstalk 01:34:57].
Jeremy Hart:
33, it should have been 41.
Nathan Van Horn:
[inaudible 01:34:58] dollars that’s [crosstalk 01:35:01].
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Now, we have done some stuff to decrease costs at the plant too. So the last one in 2017 it said it should have been I think it was right around 41 again in 2017.
Nathan Van Horn:
So where do we get the three to four then? It should be more than three to four, right?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Right.
Nathan Van Horn:
Or is that three to four just bare minimum?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
That’s like bare minimum.
Nathan Van Horn:
So really according to what people are saying, we should be eight more [inaudible 01:35:27].
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yes, and he just used what numbers he found from our annual report.
Nathan Van Horn:
So then are we realistically looking at roughly $10 more, plus $20, $25, $30?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah.
Jeremy Hart:
So, $10 a month.
Nathan Van Horn:
But that’s for bare minimum.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
That’s bare minimum. [crosstalk 01:35:46].
Nathan Van Horn:
So [inaudible 01:35:48] people pay more then that’s really maybe looking at $20?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
20 to 30, yeah.
Jeremy Hart:
With a bond. [crosstalk 01:35:56].
Nathan Van Horn:
[inaudible 01:35:58] people use bare minimum, if people use more then you’re looking at-
Bob Gray:
I guess I look at things differently. I live in the country [inaudible 01:36:08]. When something goes wrong with my well or my septic, it’s $2,000 or $3,000, boom. You don’t have a choice. You go out and slap a little red ticket on it [inaudible 01:36:22]
Jeremy Hart:
[inaudible 01:36:22] $10 just to get us back up.
Bob Gray:
Yeah, I would think that $10 for…
Ron Felger:
I don’t know that [inaudible 01:36:27], but yeah, it’s $1,000 [inaudible 01:36:31]
Bob Gray:
No, they’re 20 [inaudible 01:36:32]
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah, they’re… Yeah. [crosstalk 01:36:35] 20 to 30.
Bob Gray:
And you replace that [inaudible 01:36:41]
Nathan Van Horn:
These are just my thoughts. I feel like the first thing that we need to… I don’t know how we find out or whatever, but just Blue Lake figuring out what we need do to be able to take them on. Then it’s, I guess, priority-wise it’s checking with the RSD, see what their thoughts are, what they’re willing to contribute or whatever. See what that looks like. Obviously we have to go down south and all that kind of stuff. I think in the long run, yeah, we definitely need to do some updates to the plant.
Jeremy Hart:
So continue with the [inaudible 01:37:32]. We’re going to continue with the infiltration. Once we get our stuff, these water main and other things done, we’ll hit that, see if we can’t get that, and that will just be a waiting game. Then what, can we do anything with that oxidation ditch now? Or can we start checking or no? Just asking questions?
Holly Miller:
We just left it in general items. We don’t want to…
Casey Erwin:
Yeah, it was in general call with IDEM, so it would be probably a combination of historical data and making assumptions, giving them a lot of detailed information, maybe, trial data. There are no guarantees, but I’m sure they definitely are open to it. The other thing I want to make sure of, again because I think it’s worth doing, but I don’t think… What I don’t want to say is that if we do that, it’s going to give you a 20 year oxidation ditch for the life of the loan. But it could buy us some time [crosstalk 01:38:27]
Jeremy Hart:
Eventually, we’re going to have to do that.
Casey ERwin:
Right, so I just want… I think the key is can it get us through this initial [crosstalk 01:38:34]
Jeremy Hart:
This first step.
Casey Erwin:
Right.
Jeremy Hart:
And until we need capacity again. Then we’re going to have to make that investment.
Nathan Van Horn:
Which, and that kind of goes back to what Eric from Baker Tilley was saying. He was saying it’s probably like taking on certain things, in a way, when you look at that. You’re spreading out the people that’s paying for it.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah.
Nathan Van Horn:
I’m not a huge fan of making the residents now pay for all this stuff that we’re only going to need, maybe, 10, 15 years from now. They pay for it all, then people who move in later get the benefits of it. I feel like hey, see what we’ve got to do now, with a little bit of room to grow, but then spread it out to where, hey, I’m going to need it then. We’ll do it then and those people that will benefit from it will pay for it.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
The problem is every time…
Ron Felger:
We use that same rationale on the school board [inaudible 01:39:29] at Northwest. The people who are [inaudible 01:39:34].
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
The problem is, though, every time you go after a bond, then you’re paying that bond council fee, and then…
Nathan Van Horn:
I get that.
Casey Erwin:
That’s a great point. What we don’t want to do is go into a project. We get the oxidation ditch to where, yeah, you can get another whatever it is, 20%, 50%, whatever that may be. We do a bond. We do all these improvements. Seven years from now, all this stuff is built out, and we’re back to the same point where the oxidation ditch is a [inaudible 01:40:07].
Nathan Van Horn:
I heard something about maybe 15 years down the road. I guess [crosstalk 01:40:14]
Casey Erwin:
But to Madalyn’s point, it’s the same situation you’re at right now, because whether it’s 10 years down the road or 15 years down the road, you’ve got a project you cannot pay for unless you do a bond. It’s the bond cost, but it’s also the… You’re doing a 20 year bond, so they’re going to repackage everything. When you start out a sewer district, a lot of times people take out a $20 million bond, like USDA over 40 years, but they put in there at 20 years, they’re assuming that 50% of your infrastructure has to be replaced. Typically municipal bond or SRF for municipalities, they don’t do that because they don’t like stretching them out for more than 20 years. Again, the oxidation ditch right now, or probably even the next five to 10 years, even if that loads up, probably doesn’t make sense, a second one. Maybe a ring is marginal, but again, I’ve seen all that stuff on paper. I know I could be like that in 10 years, and we’re all sitting here and we’re back at the drawing board. Maybe what we do is when we build this, a lot of the infrastructure, we pipe everything so that if we had to do the ditch, we could [crosstalk 01:41:27]
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Right, and everything’s ready.
Casey Erwin:
Again, the easy part is, not the easy part, coming up with projects.
Jeremy Hart:
This is the easy part.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah, it really is.
Jeremy Hart:
Once you run that sewer line, you run that sewer line out…
Nathan Van Horn:
They could open up…
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
You’re talking about all sorts of development.
Jeremy Hart:
It could happen. It may not happen for 20 years, but then again, it could happen in five.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
It could happen in five, yeah.
Nathan Van Horn:
[crosstalk 01:41:56] That’s the thing. I get that, so it’s like what do you do? Do you sit and plan for it, and sit on nice land for 20 years while everybody pays for it? Do you know what I mean? Without knowing what’s coming in. It’s a gamble in a way. A bunch of people are going to be paying for it, this huge plant that we can’t…
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
This is economic development 101, Nate.
Jeremy Hart:
You don’t know.
Nathan Van Horn:
I know.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
It’s all a gamble.
Jeremy Hart:
That’s probably what [crosstalk 01:42:24]
Nathan Van Horn:
Yeah, it is. I totally agree. My nature is to go big or go home, but I’m trying to think of what [crosstalk 01:42:35]
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
I can think of one person who would have loved to have the sewer out there already.
Nathan Van Horn:
Oh, yeah.
Jeremy Hart:
And Thresher’s probably is going to… It’s going to happen.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah.
Jeremy Hart:
We already know that there’s one group that’s already there. It’s going to go.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Over the past four years, I’ve talked to at least 10 developers.
Jeremy Hart:
It’s going to phase. It’s going to phase.
Nathan Van Horn:
Can we somehow phase this, and still like where we can take out one.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
No.
Nathan Van Horn:
No? It has to all be done? But we can do that, but we can, though, phase the increases, right?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
I don’t think so. Not with a bond.
Bob Gray:
[crosstalk 01:43:16] look at it that way. I think you’re going to have to look at it is that if you’re going to do this, you’ve got to say money’s got to be there.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah, I don’t think we can phase in with a bond. I think the bond basically says, “This is what your rates are going to be, whether you like it or not.”
Nathan Van Horn:
The utility guy was saying that you could phase it in.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Right now we could.
Jeremy Hart:
Yeah, we could change the [inaudible 01:43:36]
Nathan Van Horn:
That’s what I mean.
Casey Erwin:
Yeah, but once you close on your bond…
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
They say you’re…
Nathan Van Horn:
That’s it.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Because that’s what happened with the water plant.
Casey Erwin:
We had this discussion. I had this discussion at a council a couple of weeks ago where they knew they were going to have to close on a bond in 12, 18 months from now. They thought, “Well, let’s do a rate increase now and do another one later.” Then it’s like do you do two, or do you just do one and get it over with.
Nathan Van Horn:
Got you.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Right.
Nathan Van Horn:
I mean, we need to jump in and go, “Hey, it ain’t going to get any warmer.”
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Right now, we are doing almost like a cost of living increase. We put that into both our water and our sewer ordinances to try to eliminate the need to do a huge increase every five years or so.
Bruce Johnson:
But we’re doubling our sewage rate, correct? Basically?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
We would need to if we did this project, yes.
Nathan Van Horn:
Potentially, I mean that’s…
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
I have a really good feeling we will be doubling it, at least.
Jeremy Hart:
It’s not like… We can’t eliminate much of anything. I’m sure we can eliminate something, but I don’t think it’s going to make a difference. We’re still going to have [crosstalk 01:44:56]
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Again, we put it out to a construction design bid. It could come in completely different.
Nathan Van Horn:
That’s what I mean. That’s why I was saying potentially it would come in different.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
However, these guys haven’t steered us wrong yet with any of our projects.
Jeremy Hart:
Their inflated prices have worked.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah, exactly. Well, I wouldn’t say that.
Jeremy Hart:
They’ve done pretty good.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yes, they have.
Nathan Van Horn:
So I think to [inaudible 01:45:28] to talk with RSD, what they might be willing to do. They might take off some costs here and there. Maybe we need to know exactly without just jumping in and getting [crosstalk 01:45:42]
Jeremy Hart:
Talk to them, say, “Hey, we want to [inaudible 01:45:45] about what our cost is.”
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
We wanted to get this done to try to cut stuff down before we went back to them, but yes, that will be the next step.
Jeremy Hart:
Then let’s go ahead and say, You tap on, it’s going to be this or none, or your tap fee is this, which we already know that you’ve got to pay this extra because to help with our construction. Maybe we can set and get those prices fixed, who’s going to contribute what, and then knock that down and say, “Okay, what have we got left?” Then we knock some other things down.
Nathan Van Horn:
I’d rather just, them paying for the flow, charge them like we do residents and just like a [crosstalk 01:46:19]
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
I don’t think so.
Bob Gray:
That’s my question. [crosstalk 01:46:25]
Jeremy Hart:
We give them a tap rate. Like we’ve already said, okay, we were thinking of asking them. Can we charge a tap fee for them?
Ron Felger:
I would think so.
Jeremy Hart:
That’s what I would think, too, for adding on.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
But then we would have to know when they add on people. We don’t know.
Casey Erwin:
You’re just charging them a bulk rate?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah.
Bob Gray:
Is that the way everybody is? I guess that’s what bothers me is that people in town are paying a full rate. The outside people and the new people that are going to come on are going to pay a discounted rate because it’s bulk rate.
Casey Erwin:
Yeah, they’re paying an [inaudible 01:46:57].
Participant:
I don’t think that’s right.
Jeremy Hart:
Well, unless we make them meter it.
Casey Erwin:
Is that what they’re asking for?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
No. In fact, they don’t want to pay what we told them should be the bulk rate.
Jeremy Hart:
They pretty much want a [inaudible 01:47:09].
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah.
Nathan Van Horn:
[inaudible 01:47:09]
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Because they’re anticipating them to go higher because they should have been $7.25 per thousand gallons last year, and it didn’t get passed because of some negotiations.
Casey Erwin:
How many meters are out there? Ballpark?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
400.
Jeremy Hart:
Yeah, I think it’s about 400 now. We had 90 or 85. It dropped down to 85. 400 sections.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
400 customers, yeah.
Jeremy Hart & Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Blue Lake [crosstalk 01:47:44]
Ron Felger:
Oh… Blue Lake… I thought we were talking the RSD.
Casey Erwin:
Me too. I thought, “We’ve got to redesign this whole thing!”
Bob Gray:
The RSD is going to get that bulk rate, too.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
They’re also going to get the lower rate.
Nathan Van Horn:
Well, again, that’s what I’m asking. Can we not charge… Why can’t we… I don’t see why we can’t [crosstalk 01:47:59]
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
We’re going to…
Casey Erwin:
The sewer district. Aren’t you guys holding the [inaudible 01:48:01]?
Jeremy Hart:
We’re holding everything. [crosstalk 01:48:06]
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Honestly, if we don’t do any of these infrastructure projects, they don’t have a project here. I mean, they’re…
Casey Erwin:
We play their game or we’re…
Jeremy Hart:
That’s what I’m saying. Like I say, we can set those fees and say how much money you’re going to contribute to [crosstalk 01:48:24]
Nathan Van Horn:
With all that, I guess, [inaudible 01:48:27] all that, [inaudible 01:48:28] with these prices.
Bob Gray:
Yeah, I would think so.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah, it will, but the problem is, again, when we actually go to the bond council and everything, we’re going to have an intense rate study. This was, what Eric gave us, was off the cuff, just using numbers from right now, so…
Nathan Van Horn:
Yeah, I’m not saying exactly how much is that going to be. I’m just saying, throwing out ideas to help [crosstalk 01:48:55]
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
That’s been talked about since last, well, last year, that they would… They said that they could possibly help us out with some of these costs, but they’ve never given us a ballpark, which is why they needed this.
Jeremy Hart:
Now that we have this, maybe we have to be okay, how much. Then we set our fees.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yes.
Jeremy Hart:
This is potentially what we’re going to… This is what we want.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
And we…
Jeremy Hart:
We have a contract again, and we’ve got to through it with them and say, “Here, here, and here.”
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
We do not structure the RSD contract like what we structured that Blue Lake contract, because that was the worst contract in the history of contracts.
Bruce Johnson:
That’s why we have you. Don’t let us do that.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
I don’t know. Weren’t you one when we did that the first time? [crosstalk 01:49:36]
Jeremy Hart:
He technically is the oldest town employee, really.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah.
Nathan Van Horn:
That was during harvest. Ron wasn’t part of that.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah.
Jeremy Hart:
Yeah, maybe that’s what we ought to do, we sit down [crosstalk 01:49:52]
Nathan Van Horn:
Maybe the next step, check with them, see what they’re…
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
I mean, that’s… Yeah, we wanted to whittle this down. Then we would meet with them to see where…
Nathan Van Horn:
So basically besides maybe a couple of small stuff here and there, we’re basically…
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
We’re still at the same number.
Nathan Van Horn:
Got everything potentially minus the oxidation ditch.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah.
Nathan Van Horn:
If we don’t do that now, I do like the idea that you run in some stuff so it would be easier in the future to add onto it, if we don’t go that route. Like I said, naturally I’m with you where, hey, we’re going to come this far, let’s just do it all. But I also…
Holly Miller:
We also don’t want to build something that we’re not going to be able to use, either. [inaudible 01:50:40]
Bob Gray:
And IDEM is going to want to know all those numbers, correct?
Holly Miller:
Yeah.
Bob Gray:
Those numbers are… Those people are going to have to be on before they’re going to let us put a ringer on that ditch, is my… Because [crosstalk 01:50:54]
Nathan Van Horn:
Oh, you’re talking about new connections?
Bob Gray:
Pardon me?
Casey Erwin:
What connections?
Bob Gray:
The connections out south going into it.
Casey Erwin:
Sure.
Bob Gray:
They’re going to want to know how many gallons that’s going to put into there, because they’re going to go, “You don’t have enough,” or, “You have too much.” That’s going to judge what they’re going to let us… We ran into that before.
Jeremy Hart:
When we just look at right now, I’m just trying to see what we’ve got right now, try and get that oxidation ditch up from that, percentage it is right now, before we even do any of that. Where that would come from is hey, we’re running this plant with your numbers right now. Can we up that?
Holly Miller:
It could be an ongoing conversation with IDEM
Bob Gray:
They may be looking at that right now. Rex said that he was going to, said something to whatever they need.
Jeremy Hart:
I wouldn’t want to add any potential growth. I would see if we could get that to go up as we are now first.
Casey Erwin:
Right, just get us a base right now.
Jeremy Hart:
Just get a base so we can get it up, and then we can see when it goes back to what we want to do with it.
Casey Erwin:
What it could get us then…
Jeremy Hart:
What we need to do with that ditch, if we need to do anything.
Casey Erwin:
Okay.
Bob Gray:
Like I said, if they can get some of that water out of there.
Jeremy Hart:
Yeah, that’s the other thing, so…
Bob Gray:
Because it just amazes me that we’re only at 47%.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
It hasn’t rained in two weeks.
Jeremy Hart:
We’ve got to come out of this as go to the RSD at some point, and maybe renegotiate some of that contract. Why don’t we get that set up and say, “Hey…
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
I’ll set something up with them.
Jeremy Hart:
Here’s our potential we might do today. We’ve got numbers. What do you think?” Then our tap fees we’ve already established. Then, if there’s an extra tap, if you want to put an extra for anybody who hooks on.”
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
I’ll set something up within the next few weeks.
Jeremy Hart:
Then we get our numbers back then, then say, “Okay,” see where we’re at.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Because I have a feeling they probably want to meet with us before their August meeting, which I think is the 18th or something, so…
Jeremy Hart:
Ron, I don’t think we can, but could we add a tap fee for the new Blue Lake people, because we’ve already established [crosstalk 01:53:21]
Ron Felger:
I was looking at this and I can’t really say yes or no. There is a procedure in here to reopen this agreement. It’s a negotiation [inaudible 01:53:32].
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
I think we discussed that, wanting to do that.
Ron Felger:
Pardon?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
I said I think we discussed wanting to do that in the past.
Jeremy Hart:
So we can [crosstalk 01:53:41] Add a tap fee and say, “Hey, we’re going to add these fees for these new people.”
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yes, very much.
Bob Gray:
They’ve done part of it.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
They have done a lot.
Jeremy Hart:
They’ve done part of it, and he’s doing, Rick’s doing well on helping us. He realizes it.
Bob Gray:
Yeah, Rick is really good.
Jeremy Hart:
So it will actually increase their capacity.
Nathan Van Horn:
I was going to say [crosstalk 01:53:59]
Jeremy Hart:
You get rid of some of that, and Bob can monitor that, he knows how much comes in from that, and when it’s raining, he knows.
Ron Felger:
[inaudible 01:54:10] introduction of surface water and groundwater that flows into the sewage system and would otherwise force such a prohibition on [inaudible 01:54:24]
Bob Gray:
Rick’s the first one to actually go after this stuff and try to fix it.
Ron Felger:
Yeah, [inaudible 01:54:36]
Bob Gray:
I think it was 10 or 12 he just fixed, last month.
Ron Felger:
Oh, okay.
Bob Gray:
I know [crosstalk 01:54:42] Right, I think we’ve got to start pushing back on it.
Jeremy Hart:
We’ve got to go to those entities [crosstalk 01:54:54]
Nathan Van Horn:
That’s the thing, too, at the very minimum, we need to do something to be able at least to fulfill our contract with Blue Lake, right? We’ll say if we meet with [crosstalk 01:55:10]
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Right now we have no problem with our obligation with Blue Lake, at 46%.
Nathan Van Horn:
Oh, yeah, but my understanding is [inaudible 01:55:19]
Jeremy Hart:
Yes, you do, but don’t grow. Those are the exact words she said. [crosstalk 01:55:35]
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
There’s no way on earth, no way on earth that they would approve, IDEM would approve RSD right now.
Jeremy Hart:
Unless they phase it. They say, “We’re only going to put in…
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Which that’s not their plan.
Jeremy Hart:
10 homes in two years, and then we’ll do… Then that’s feasible. That’s not their plan. I get it, but maybe that is another avenue we can look at, say, “You can only do this, and then you can do this.”
Bob Gray:
There was not a tank on front of the inflow, correct?
Holly Miller:
There is for the phosphorus removal.
Casey Erwin:
Yeah, we got one, and that costs about the same or close to this filter
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah, it’s about the same.
Casey Erwin:
You can work out how you want to do that.
Bob Gray:
Do them both. Both. IDEM’s going to make us put one on the back end. That’s just a given.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
So an extra 200 grand? Okay, great. Let me pull that out of my pocket right now.
Jeremy Hart:
Yeah, the water needs to go up, too.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl t:
It’s going to have to go up and some point, too.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl & Jeremy Hart:
Not like this.
Jeremy Hart:
It’s not even close to being that.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Not yet, anyway.
Jeremy Hart:
You’ll be like, “Oh, that was easy.”
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Talk to us in about seven years when the plant’s 17 years old. Then yeah.
Bob Gray:
That’s my problem now. What do you want me to do about the stuff that needs done right now? Roof needs fixed. Lights need fixed before winter
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
You need to do a fish fry to raise that money.
Jeremy Hart:
Hey, if that’s what we need to do… we’re only going to make $3,000 maybe? But hey, that’ll pay your light bill. But that, and then Bob’s, that generator, that $13,000. We know this is going to take a year or two. We’ve got to tell them that.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah, you got to get him the generator, though.
Jeremy Hart:
If that generator, the power out of the generator goes down…
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
We’ve got to get that generator done right now.
Jeremy Hart:
Because things are just going to go… That plant runs 24 hours a day. It never stops. [crosstalk 01:57:51] That is an additional [crosstalk 01:57:56] Clarify everything is just an overflow.
Bruce Johnson:
I’ve got one that runs about five houses.
Jeremy Hart:
It’s a monster.
Bob Gray:
It’s a monster.
Jeremy Hart:
We’ve definitely got to make a move on that as soon as possible.
Casey Erwin:
One other, and I think you’re aware of this, but you mentioned a bond anticipation note, that bond anticipation note usually is for a soft costs, but it could also be for miscellaneous improvements as well, but I would assume that when you talk to Baker Tilley, they’re going to say your first thing should be probably to do a general bond ordinance that you think is big enough to fit the whole project in. It could be less but [inaudible 01:58:40]
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah, that’s right.
Casey Erwin:
Then that will allow you to do a bond anticipation note, and then that allows you to do more work with final design. Then that six to 12 months starts. You get everything designed and bid. Then you bid the project- about a month. Then you close on the project, you see how much it’s going to cost. Then you do final rate increase. The good part is now, but also before you do the bond ordinance, you have all these pieces figured out. Hey, what’s the big picture it’s going to cost and are we getting help from anybody else, so you have a high rate increase that you’re working down from, you’re not working up from. Is there any action items for us?
Bruce Johnson:
No. You’ve done a good job of covering everything.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
No? Yes?
Bob Gray:
I’m thinking. I guess what we’re going to have to go back to IDEM and see what they’re doing.
Casey Erwin:
That would be the only thing they would consider, whether now or sometime in the future, near future, trying to get the go ahead to look into that. [crosstalk 01:59:59] We’ve got to figure out the process first.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Right.
Jeremy Hart:
Exactly.
Casey Erwin:
Because it’s not really a permit. You know what I’m saying. They’ll probably give us [crosstalk 02:00:14]
Jeremy Hart:
Well, it’s an upgraded permit application.
Casey Erwin:
Yeah. If they buy into it.
Jeremy Hart:
That’s part of what we’re doing here, [inaudible 02:00:23] see if they’ll do that for us.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
I say do it.
Jeremy Hart:
I would say yes, because we’re not going to have time to [crosstalk 02:00:34] They’re going to crunch numbers better than we’re going to.
Nathan Van Horn:
We’re basically saying checking with them to see if they [crosstalk 02:00:40]
Jeremy Hart:
Allow them to go ahead and entertain the motion with IDEM, just see if we can knock down some of this oxidation ditch.
Nathan Van Horn:
Absolutely. Yeah.
Jeremy Hart:
Then improve the capacity for the plant, for our plant.
Holly Miller:
Maybe we could just do that under our town contract?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
That would work.
Casey Erwin:
We can provide updates on that, naturally. First of all, [inaudible 02:01:02] can figure out the process. Then when we know the process, all the boxes we have to check, looking at historical data, getting the actual true data, that kind of stuff.
Bruce Johnson:
Sounds good.
Jeremy Hart:
Yeah, it works under our contract with you guys already, part of that. We can potentially max some of that out.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
All right. Can I bring up that one little thing?
Bruce Johnson:
Yes, go ahead.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
All right, so the costs up on the screen show what it’s going to be just to surrender…
Jeremy Hart:
To what?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
To surrender our retirement. Most of us are already vested, with the exception of four people, and those four people account for $2,300. So John Hancock has agreed to give us $1,500 as a buyout, so just giving us free money for $1,500. It leaves us a shortfall of $1,128. Is it possible that the town can just cover that to make everybody whole so that there are no surrender costs? Don’t worry, you guys are not on there. It’s the people that are newest.
Jeremy Hart:
What is that, Madalyn?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
It’s a surrender charge to move from Lincoln to John Hancock, because…
Jeremy Hart:
Oh, okay. I got you.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Because they aren’t vested with Lincoln, which we don’t have any paperwork with Lincoln, so how the heck would I have known that? But yeah, so that… Scott said that it’s very common for those guys to have a surrender fee if you haven’t been vested, or haven’t been in their program.
Casey Erwin:
Thanks, guys.
Jeremy Hart:
See you later. When David left, he never got his? He had about $30,000 years ago.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Like $60,000 now.
Jeremy Hart:
And he’s never cashed? I thought we notified him.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Nope.
Jeremy Hart:
Before you, though.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
They will be notifying him now.
Jeremy Hart:
It was $30,000, I said, years ago for him. Remember David Curtis? [inaudible 02:03:11]
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Bob Hyatt still has money in his. Anyway, it really affects only, I mean, $25 of municipal, that’s actually our… That’s our fee from Lincoln anyway. All of us already… Actually, most of us don’t even know that they take out the service charge every year. You know.
Bob Gray:
I know.
Nathan Van Horn:
Bob loses sleep over that.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah, the other ones, Dustin and Forker are really going to be taking a hard hit on theirs, so…
Bruce Johnson:
So we’re basically helping them out more than anybody.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah, basically.
Bruce Johnson:
Nate, what do you think
Nathan Van Horn:
Is it in the budget?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
We have money in our retirement, honestly. Yeah, it’s in the budget.
Bruce Johnson:
It’s in the budget. Take care of it.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
It would eliminate angry employees.
Bruce Johnson:
Make the motion.
Nathan Van Horn:
We have to make a motion and everything?
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
Yeah.
Nathan Van Horn:
I’ll accept the motion, Bruce.
Bruce Johnson:
I second it.
Nathan Van Horn:
A motion… What is this thing called? A motion that the town pays $1,128 to offset the surrender charges from Lincoln…
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
From Lincoln to John Hancock.
Nathan Van Horn:
John Hancock.
Bruce Johnson:
I’ll second.
Nathan Van Horn:
Motion and second. All in favor signify by saying aye.
Nathan Van Horn & Bruce Johnson :
Aye.
Nathan Van Horn:
All right.
Bruce Johnson:
I don’t hear from Mark any.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
He left a long time ago.
Jeremy Hart:
He texted. He had to leave.
Madalyn Sade-Bartl:
All right, that’s all I had.
Nathan Van Horn:
Cool. We stand adjourned.
